WeirdX and Java

[Dave Yeo]

Talking about HobX11 - Is there a way to properly install the version packaged with eCS on ArcaOS? Each time I tried using the original installer, it ended up in an error. Now that Hob does not sell it anymore, maybe they would be open to providing a way to do it properly?
Moderator: if you think this needs its own topic on the forum, please feel free to move it.

IIRC, you need to create an \ecs directory with ECS_INST.FLG in it with the file having whatever eCS 1.x put in it.

[P.R.]

Talking about HobX11 - Is there a way to properly install the version packaged with eCS on ArcaOS?

It is possible, but it requires manual work. I didn't need an ecs directory, but I did need some other prerequisites.

You can perform the basic installation from CD 3, but that's not enough.

You have to copy two .ini files from an eCS 1.1 system with HOBX11 installed into the OS2 directory: ecsreg.ini and ecsreg11.ini. Additionally, you apparently also have to export the registry entry from the os2.ini file in eCS to ArcaOS.

Without the two .ini files and the registry entry in os2.ini, the program won't start. The installer seems to create the entry in os2.ini, but I've always overwritten it with the entry from eCS. Perhaps that's not even necessary; I haven't tested it.
This is only permissible if you originally purchased eCS 1.1 legitimately. The license is valid for eCS 1.1. Whether mixing and matching is allowed is a rather difficult and presumably complex legal question. At the time, it was judged quite differently, as far as I recall. I took a pragmatic approach and, as a regular purchaser of eCS 1.1 and ArcaOS, considered the combination acceptable, basing my decision on OEM licenses for Windows and its software.

But back to the installation. In my experience, I was unable to directly install HOBX11, which is available on Hobbes, for example; I did not purchase it separately but via eCS.
The installation method using CD3 was the only way that worked for me. CD3 also contains bug fixes that should be applied.

I originally got these steps from a forum discussion a long time ago.

And the DLL SECURIT2.DLL is also required (it belongs in the HOBX11 directory).


I recently reinstalled ArcaOS and in doing so installed HOBX11 on the system.

I think HOBX11 is a topic all its own, including the question of whether buyers can implement the described mix without worry.

[Dave Yeo]

I think HOBX11 is a topic all its own, including the question of whether buyers can implement the described mix without worry.

The copy I have was being given out for free at the end of HOBX11 development. The problem is that it only works on the Warp V4 install that I originally installed it on and the original package is lost. I didn't purchase eCS until version 2 which didn't include HobX11.

[Glenn]

Thanks all for the tips. I have had eCS since the beta before v1 (unfortunately I do not have the beta CD anymore and never made an ISO out of it, also lost my v1.0 CDs). I should be able to install a v1.1 or 1.2 on a VM and extract the right files and registry information out of it.

[P.R.]

I think HOBX11 is a topic all its own, including the question of whether buyers can implement the described mix without worry.

The copy I have was being given out for free at the end of HOBX11 development. The problem is that it only works on the Warp V4 install that I originally installed it on and the original package is lost. I didn't purchase eCS until version 2 which didn't include HobX11.

That's interesting – I hadn't heard of that before. Perhaps someone else has an original package and can help out?

In the eCS version, the xserver.exe file is dated March 12, 2003. startwin.exe is dated September 28, 2000; the log file declares the version as X11/PM 3.5 (20000927). It's conceivable that the eCS version contains customizations that are missing from the freely distributed version (?).

So far, I've followed the instructions I know (they work). But my curiosity got the better of me.

Regarding the installation, I tried a different approach today in a VM with AOS 5.1.2. I installed the UX1135 package from https://www.os2site.com/sw/xfree86/. This is the trial version(?); entering a serial number is grayed out, i.e., blocked. The installation went smoothly. I then imported the data previously exported from eCS using regedit2. No further adjustments were made.

HOBX11 starts without errors. The sercurit2.dll required by the eCS version is not requested. The xserver.exe file version is from September 28, 2000, and only slightly smaller than that of the eCS version.

From this minimal difference, I conclude that there are no real functional differences. Perhaps the eCS version simply added an extra INI check for the license. UX1135 apparently manages without the previously described overhead.

Whether the test installation with overwritten registry data will start reliably in the long run remains to be seen. I will first test whether the functions run identically to the eCS version. I haven't found any information on limitations, so trial and error is the only option. If the test installation runs identically to the eCS version after 30 days, I might be able to handle future reinstallations more quickly.

[Dave Yeo]

OK, my Xserver is dated 28/09/00 and 1591272 bytes, other files the same as yours.
I tried running install from the UX1135 package. It offered to reinstall or update, I chose update. It bitched a bit about my install already being the latest but allowed me to update. Now it is working, though haven't tested too much.
I think at the end, they just published a serial number to freely use the package, I see it in ini.ini along with my name etc. It is dated 19/11/02, so that is likely when I installed it.
Anyways, seems to be properly installed and working now, even the desktop folder is there.

[P.R.]

I wonder if WeirdX  (and HOBX11) are just using too old of X. Xfree86 is 11r6 and the others are 11r5 or 11r4. I quickly looked at the source but to my non-expert eyes, nothing jumped out.

I can't say exactly which base WeirdX and HOBX11 are. Both still get along quite well with X11 7.7 (Debian 8). I still have an old mini PC (Cubietruck) with a Debian 8 and an older Pi2 with Debian 10 - both programs can still score points (SSH access, remote login via XDM). Everything new raises the expected problems.
I assume both use X11R6.4 - according to Wikipedia, X11R6 was available from 1994.

HOBX11: The company's web archive page lists 6.4 as the version. WeirdX: I therefore assume we are both on version X11R6.4. However, both programs implemented different amounts.

And yes, the port of XFree86 4.5 should be based on X11R6.7 or X11R6.8 (8.0, 8.1, 8.2). However, since external programs can be output as well as programs running on the same PC (from a full-screen session with XFree86), I have no doubt that you can redirect from a full-screen session XFree86 to the WPS with weirdx or Hobx11 on the same PC. This can be useful because WPS supports higher resolutions than XFree86.

Version statuses are listed quite clearly here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System. It just doesn't really help.

Weirdx has a much better screen output compared to HOBX11. That's ultimately what makes it interesting. This would be my approach. For the missing terminal, I could imagine alternatives for starting the program. However, the error in the JAVA implementation raises the question of the meaning. I don't suspect whether you have to refresh ODIN at the same time to fix it. I'm not familiar with JAVA, but it seems that weirdx's construction is causing the error. In my opinion, it's not the basis that needs to be changed, but rather the programming of weirdx itself.

When it comes to JAVA, I'm flying blind.

Side note:
The problem with Mozilla still persists with only one active CPU. However, when accessing the XFree86 full-screen session with a terminal, the message now appears rarely. When it comes, it comes right at the beginning. If the message appears, I can close Moziall early to prevent the trap. I'll leave the emx option set for now, it seems to create enough reaction buffers.

[fusion]

i've used weirdx a lot sending from a linux machine to os/2..

there was another thread we even talked about it

from that thread (as mentioned, real Linux -> OS/2)

Works:
Chromium-ungoogled - Browsed and played YouTube. Only works when video is tiny but browsing seemed fine.
Discord - This is a chromium based web app packaged as a program, and works fine.
wine - Tested IrfanView with wine64 ouputting to WeirdX and scrolled some images, a couple other tests didn't work though.
DOSBox - didn't test any programs, but built in prompt worked and displayed the welcome screen fine.
xterm
xcalc
xeyes - lol
mpv and mplayer both played video! Definitely not hardware accelerated. About 720p size didn't seem choppy.

Doesn't work:
Firefox - seems to need hardware accel
Thunderbird - is firefox in disguise
SeaMonkey
GIMP
Pidgin
kitty, Konsole, probably most "fancier" terms than xterm
xpdf


i have much better luck with PMX and even installed OS/2 fonts so the xterm and cmd.exe windows on OS/2 are pixel perfect matches

[Andy Willis]

At the time Everblue was being worked on, I had high hopes for it:
https://trac.netlabs.org/everblue

[fusion]

OS/2 is full of dilemmas..

if we had a proper terminal someone could use this:

https://github.com/browsh-org/browsh

for some basic browsing tasks. still requires a separate linux machine though.

whether it ended up being something you liked to use or not, who knows. there are youtube videos about it (just search "browsh terminal browser" or something similar) and it certainly looks pretty nice.