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#81
Article Discussions / Re: What is the future of this...
Last post by DougB - 2012.09.20, 04:47:36
A few years ago, the OS/4 kernel was described, by the developers, as "rearranging chunks of the OS/2 kernel, to make it work better" (or something to that effect). That would mean that every "chunk" was somebody else's work (belonging to IBM), and it was being used in new work, without the original owner's consent. If that is not copyright infringement, I don't know what is. Of course, some people seem to think that copyright laws are meant to be broken, if it is inconvenient to obey them. In this case, it is very inconvenient to obey the law, but it is the law (right, or wrong), so you need to obey it, or get it changed.

I am not sure of the actual "corporate" status of OS2World, but Mensys is a business, and a business cannot afford to break the law. There is also the requirement to provide legal software to their customers. Since the OS/4 kernel has not (probably cannot) been proven to be original work, neither one of them can take the chance that it isn't.

For the record, I am not sure that something like the OS/4 kernel (assuming it is legal) needs to be open source. If a company can build such a thing, and can get their own copyright for it, I don't see any real problem with Mensys (or  any other entity that may end up with OS/2)  paying them a reasonable royalty for their work. The main problem with doing it that way, is that the company could suddenly decide to raise the cost, or they could go out of business, or decide to terminate the project. That, of course, should be properly handled in the contract with them, so that costs are controlled, and the source (and all rights) defaults to Mensys, if they go out of business, or terminate the project. So far, Mensys seems to be rather poor at making binding contracts, but that has nothing to do with the discussion here.
#82
Article Discussions / Re: What is the future of this...
Last post by Criguada - 2012.09.20, 01:00:55
Quote from: AAA on 2012.09.19, 23:23:02
Quote from: miturbide on 2012.09.19, 17:18:21
... OS/4 kernel is a illegal software ...

It would be very interesting to hear how you can prove this statement.

AAA, unfortunately you have your logic reversed. If you want your software to be distributable without legal issues, *you* have to prove it is legal, original work, not the other way around. If you cannot prove it (or give others a way of proving it e.g. showing your source code) nobody will ever risk his business (or even his site) by publishing it.

This may obviously not be true for an original, unseen piece of software, but OS/4 kernel is replicating exactly the functions of a commercial OS kernel, so the burden of proving it is clean is *yours*.

Bye
Cris
#83
Article Discussions / Re: What is the future of this...
Last post by AAA - 2012.09.19, 23:23:02
Quote from: miturbide on 2012.09.19, 17:18:21
... OS/4 kernel is a illegal software ...

It would be very interesting to hear how you can prove this statement.
#84
Article Discussions / Re: What is the future of this...
Last post by miturbide - 2012.09.19, 17:54:21
Here it is my strategy's business case for the "Savvy Businessman"



:)

Lesson Learned: "Dreams may not have business cases."
#85
Article Discussions / Re: What is the future of this...
Last post by miturbide - 2012.09.19, 17:18:21
Hi walking_x

I agreed with the removal of OS/4 kernel links from this forum, I don't want to shut down OS2World.com if I got a complain from copyright author. OS/4 kernel is a illegal software and I don't want to put in risk this site. I prefer to mitigate the risk at once, than having a remote possibility that IBM can sue us.  When OS/4 releases a legal version that can be uploaded at hobbes and shared with everyone it will be ok.

For the moment, I think that maintaining OS2World.com online is more important.

OS/4 community should try to clone OS/2 components and make them open souce (copyleft). It is more important to make the platform survive for everyone than complaining about Mensys or Gorbunov.

Contact the Loader clone author and tell him to turn the it open source under a copyleft license (maybe GNU GPL) and stop caring about Mensys. This will benefit the platform in the long term, and anybody that wants to recompile/improve/change the loader will also require to give the source back.
#86
Internet / Re: Does Thunderbird handle "p...
Last post by abwillis - 2012.09.19, 16:45:17
I too have seen these "leftovers".  It has been that way for a very long time (I cannot recall if there were earlier versions that did not do this).  I do not know the cause, though I doubt it is a source of problems I can't say that definitively.
#87
Article Discussions / Re: What is the future of this...
Last post by walking_x - 2012.09.19, 16:13:37
Quote from: abwillis on 2012.09.10, 21:46:28
The biggest problem with the kernel (not necessarily any issue I know of on the loader) is the fact that they used the debug kernel to patch.  The debug kernel is not designed to use in every day usage.  I would guess they used it because they probably used the debugging function connected to another PC to figure out what needed to be done but then had everything based off of the binary they were using because they lacked the source.
Latest OS/4 kernel package contain both debug and retail kernels ;) Really retail - without kernel debugger code. COM port link still available, but optional - for logging...

Quote from: miturbide on 2012.09.11, 00:06:521) once they are able to replace the IBM leaked source code. Using leaked source code is consider illegal. Abandonware is consider illegal. There is no future for a platform if it can not be also used for commercial use. Companies and individuals that works to make money don't want to have the risk of using an illegal platform.
I think - only one way is to annoy IBM every month and repeatedly ask to open OS/2 source code ;)

Quote2) When OS/4 kernel and loader turns open source. I don't know why some Russians thinks that Open Source only help the capitalist. Talking on the #OS2russian channel they told me "Open Source only works for making Mensys Millions of Dollars". But they don't think that turning the software open source (copyleft) also forces Mensys to give back the source code improvements.
There is a small problem with Mensys - they cannot create working things ;) Multimac? Fine - it works 3 (three) seconds on full gigabit speed for me, then trap system ;) Uniaud? It mute forever after 1-2 sounds, on most of PCs near me. Azarewicz version. They put wrong versions of drivers to release (!) of OS. They create system app with funny default Borland Delphi icon, etc, etc...

QuoteAbout QSLoader, as far as I know it is original work (please correct me if I'm wrong), but it says on the license.
"Binary form of this package is freeware. Source code can be available by request, for non-commercial use only." So, this loader do not has a future, and the license seems to be dedicated to Mensys.
Gorbunov wrote a time ago on his forum: "we need to search source code available to put our copyrights on it" ;) This is clearly define "the way of Mensys", I think ;) May be I'm wrong, but I can promise to upload qsloader source code then it author became too tired of it.

QuoteThe OS/4 team need to stop having heart feelings against Mensys and think about the future of the platform.
May be... but who started this "war"? Who asked hobbes to remove OS/4 loader (not kernel!)? Why? It really usable, for personal use, at least. Especially on modern PCs (with "holes" in memory). And who will really care about it's "source" if it is not distributed by Mensys? IBM? Are they remember such word at all? ;)
#88
Internet / Does Thunderbird handle "proce...
Last post by bottomtop - 2012.09.19, 13:42:23
Hello,

I have notice that if I have used the ctrl-alt-del commander that comes with EcS while Thunderbird is running, it lists a number of "processess" in the window list that are related to Thunderbird and have the same Process ID but with the note "Inv" next to them.   These processes all seem to pertain to tasks I have performed in Thunderbird during the day, but have completed.  For example, each message that I have written or printed has listed a separate "write-[subject of e-mail msg]" or "print-[subject of e-mail msg]".  Is this something to be concerned about?  It makes me think that maybe thunderbird doesn't know how to fully clean up or exit its completed tasks.   Perhaps this is why my system becomes unstable after, say, 5 or 6 hours running and using thunderbird.  Is this perhaps a shared experience?
#89
Article Discussions / Re: ACPI package 3.21.02 has b...
Last post by abwillis - 2012.09.18, 17:15:24
Quote from: Blonde Guy on 2012.09.18, 07:09:28
Suspend/resume is working on my Thinkpad X60. It needed to be on IBM single mouse driver, to have the /VBE parameter and to have the latest USB drivers, 10.185 installed.
Interesting the X60 needs the /VBE as my Z61m (seems to be more closely related to T60 than T61 in many regards) doesn't.  Though I wonder if that would speed up the resume, it suspends immediately but takes I think longer to resume than to boot it up in many cases.
#90
Article Discussions / Re: ACPI package 3.21.02 has b...
Last post by Blonde Guy - 2012.09.18, 07:09:28
Suspend/resume is working on my Thinkpad X60. It needed to be on IBM single mouse driver, to have the /VBE parameter and to have the latest USB drivers, 10.185 installed.