This evening I cloned my OS/2 Warp 3.0 hard drive using EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3, however the clone does not boot. The white "OS/2" block never appears. I have used a Windows 95 Startup disc to verify (using fdisk) that the primary partition is set as active. Using the DOS prompt on the Win95 floppy, I have done a quick DIR /p of the clone and I see no obvious errors. EASEUS DiskCopy is supposed to make the clone of a bootable hard drive bootable. Can anyone suggest what may have gone wrong? I have removed the original drive so there cannot be a boot conflict. Also I have booted successfully to the original OS/2 drive using the same jumper settings and same IDE and power connectors.
Hi Tommy in Scotland
What is EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3? - Well, obvious what it is meant to be but I'm wondering if it is 1 of a multitude of "Win only" disk tools?
Well, found the homepage and looked for specs - which seem to be lacking... Does claim "providing sector-by-sector disk/partition clone regardless of your operating system, file systems and partition scheme" but not much else...
I think I would have looked at DFSee for the cloning task - www.dfsee.com - or simply used fdisk and xcopy.
Guess it must work with Warp3 if all looks correct when booted from floppy.
Long time since I last used Warp3... Does Warp3 require the use of Sysinstx to be run against the cloned drive to install system files?
Regards
Pete
More details needed.
What file system is your OS/2 - HPFS or FAT?
How does the diskcopy program you used work - sector by sector copy or something else?
If the OS/2 disk is formatted HPFS then most windows based programs will see it as NTFS and mess up the copy.
If the OS/2 disk was formatted FAT then you will need to run SYSINSTX.COM ti set the boot parameters.
Get a copy of DFSEE and use that to clone your drive - it knows all about OS/2.
Hi Pete,
well I'm not sure as all this cloning is fairly new to me. EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3 is freeware and it is downloaded as an iso file, which creates a boot CD. The program on the CD simply transfers all data from the source partition to the destination partition (including the boot-sector), which means it is non OS-specific... or at least that's what I was led to believe. One user commented that it should be able to copy Linux drives just as effectively as it is simply a drive-sector replication utility.
The boot CD has a flashy GUI which guides you in a basic way through the process. One thing I may have made an error on... after making the copy, the EASEUS GUI then told me to reboot (ensuring that only one bootable drive was still connected on startup), and when the system went down to reboot I switched off in order to remove the source drive, then switched back on in order to remove the CD and boot to the clone. Since the EASEUS said "Press any key to reboot", I'm wondering if I should have let it reboot then with both drives and the CD in place?
When I then connected the source drive and booted it, it immediately ran chkdsk, so I'm wondering if DiskCopy has done anything to the original drive while copying it? Having said that, it is working perfectly. Only the clone does not boot. I'm anxious to sort this as I'd like to use both OS/2 drives in different machines.
I may try another attempt tomorrow following the CD's reboot instruction more closely... I must say, the entire copying process from a 545MB drive to a 4.3GB drive went very quickly on my 400MHz Celeron PC.
Hi Ivan, my OS/2 drive is FAT, due to the fact I have DOS and Windows fw3.11 on it.
EASEUS DiskCopy 2.3 is a sector replication utility running from a bootable CD.
Where do I run SYSINSTX.COM? The drive does not boot at all... instead of the white OS/2 block in the top of the screen I just get a flashing white cursor. I suppose there is some boot activity taking place to allow this, otherwise the computer would say "Missing Operating System".
Hi Tommy,
The information you gave Pete says you do need to run SYSINSTX.COM becaus of the size changes of the disks.
In your case you would run it from the Warp 3 boot floppies. (It's on the installation diskette of my warp 3 connect set) You go to a command prompt and with the installation diskette in the drive run sysinstx c: (or what ever the boot partition for OS/2 is), remove the diskette and reboot - OS/2 should then boot correctly, if not then there are more problems that need sorting out.
I assume you have OS/2 on its own partition and not some unholy mess of OS/2, DOS/WINDOWS on the same partition. If it is the former then the simple way is to format the OS/2 partition HPFS then XCOPY over your original OS/2 (This is how I've transferred OS/2 when I've upgraded hard disks. In fact I've created a bootable CD with a copy of OS/2 zipped in it for use should anything go wrong with the boot partition on my machines).
I'm not sure about how EASEUS DiskCopy works so would be very careful using it. I'll get a copy of it later in the morning (02:19 here at the moment and I need to take the dog out for his last walk of the night) then run it in a virtual machine and see what happens and let you know.
Quote from: Tommy in Scotland on 2009.03.31, 02:14:23
I may try another attempt tomorrow following the CD's reboot instruction more closely... I must say, the entire copying process from a 545MB drive to a 4.3GB drive went very quickly on my 400MHz Celeron PC.
Gang,
I think here MIGHT be the key. The partition is FAT, and the disk is 4.3GB. The OS/2 boot partition should be under 2GB for FAT and Warp 3, at the beginning of the disk (well, all FAT partitions on OS/2 should be 2GB or less if memory serves...)
OS/2 wont boot or be able to use the partition.
Tommy, you have to ensure the FAT partition is no greater than 2GB and resides in the first 1024 cylinders (the second part should not be a problem). And the rest of the free space either needs to be FAT paritions under 2GB (if you want OS/2 to be able to use them, or HPFS.
Rob
Thanks everyone. I think RobertM has hit the nail on the head. This morning I started the whole process again, using a 1.2GB destination drive. Using EASEUS DiskCopy I did the same copy operation from the original 545MB OS/2 drive to the 1.2GB drive, and it successfully copied the bootable FAT partition. I have booted successfully into the new clone and have created a new 703MB HPFS partition in the remainder of the drive. It's great because I can experiment far more with OS/2 now, without fear of losing my data. If I corrupt it in any way I can remake it from the mould, so to speak.
I had to change computers as the 400MHz PC would not boot to a CD. For some bizarre reason, regardless of how I set the boot sequence in BIOS, the CD drive would not boot. I have never seen this happen before. I am now using a 700MHz machine for my OS/2 drive.
Hi Tommy,
Sorry I missed the bit about increasing the partition size to one over 2GB. I assumed when you said clone you meant just that, a partition the same size as the original.
I did download the program and can confirm it does work on the virtual OS/2 I set up as you have found.
One thing I would recommend you do is to partition you new large hard disk into a C: partition for DOS/WINDOW and a D: partition (HPFS) for OS/2 then use boot manager to allow you boot either on as necessary.
Quote from: Tommy in Scotland on 2009.03.31, 14:23:42
....as the 400MHz PC would not boot to a CD. For some bizarre reason, regardless of how I set the boot sequence in BIOS, the CD drive would not boot. ...
Some CD-Drives need a lot of time to detect a bootable disk. Way too much for some bioses which do boot from harddisk before the CD is ready. <PAUSE> key for a few seconds right after bios drive detection will help in such cases. I've one system which behaves like that. Maybe you have the same problem...
Quote from: Tommy in Scotland on 2009.03.31, 14:23:42
I had to change computers as the 400MHz PC would not boot to a CD. For some bizarre reason, regardless of how I set the boot sequence in BIOS, the CD drive would not boot. I have never seen this happen before. I am now using a 700MHz machine for my OS/2 drive.
Open the case, ensure that the CD ROM is on the
Secondary IDE controller, and
ensure it is set to SLAVE (not master or cable select).
If you are using an 80pin cable, ensure that the CD ROM drive is on the middle connector (not the end).
On a 40 pin cable, it should not matter unless the cable has a tiny chunk missing in one of the wires (in which case it should be labelled which connector is Slave).Then, go into the BIOS, ensure that the CD ROM is recognized, (and recognized on the correct port: Secondary->Slave), and re-ensure the boot options are still correct (ie: "CD-ROM -> Floppy -> HDD" or some other order that puts the CD-ROM first).
Then try booting off the CD.
If that does not work, try another bootable CD. If that DOES work, then the drive may not be able to read the offending CD. If that is the case, try re-burning the CD at a really low speed or try using a different brand CD-r burned at a really low speed.
If that fails, replace the CD-ROM drive - it may be failing. When that happens, they often first exhibit the problem with issues booting or reading certain CDs/CDr's.
Rob
NOTE: The above instructions only apply to certain older machines, and are not required on any recent machines (or even
some older ones)
Robert, I hate to disagree with you but in every instance I have come across where an older computer would not boot from a CD - if the bios allowed that - was because the CD was set to SLAVE and not MASTER. Changing from SLAVE to MASTER allowed booting from CD in all cases but one and that one was fixed with a new CD drive.
As I understand it being able to boot from a CD with the drive set as SLAVE is the exception rather than the rule, even if you did give yourself an 'out' at the bottom of your post :)
I have vague memories of something from IBM about CD drives not working if they were set to SLAVE and they were the only item on the IDE controller. Having had a quick look through my Warp3 and 4 books I think it must be in my archives which are in boxes in the loft and I'm not about to go looking there at the moment.
I do agree with your other two statements regarding a bad burn and drive.
Since Tommy appears to be up and running at the moment, most of this is mute but may be interesting to someone else.
Hi Ivan,
Oddly, I had the exact opposite issue with various true IBM machines: PC330, PC350, PC750s - all around the same age as the machine he has. Also, if you look at the tech notes for older Packard Bells, HPs and CompuDynes, that is the configuration recommended as well.
It was somewhere in the slightly higher CPU (and BIOS) range that things started to change. The recommendations were for speed, do not connect to same channel as the HDD, and for compatibility/boot (and with Warp, sometimes even seeing it) set to slave.
Those are each the reason why the drives came factory set to slave (and the older machines seemed to prefer it - at least the ones that used the same chipsets and similar BIOS's to the IBMs) - because (1) it would be correct in a single cable setup, and (2) it would be correct and work in a dual IDE channel/cable setup.
The newer machines (the second series of 400MHz and up) preferred Master for CD-ROM on second controller for boot.
So perhaps I should have clarified that. His machine straddles that line (and cant tell on what side without knowing model information and such). Because it does leave a plethora of old machines that require it on the master setting for booting - but also a bunch of even older ones that use the slave channel.
Seems the previous thread has gotten corrupted, with only half my answer (the remainder is after the line break):
Hi Ivan,
Oddly, I had the exact opposite issue with various true IBM machines: PC330, PC350, PC750s - all around the same age as the machine he has. Also, if you look at the tech notes for older Packard Bells, HPs and CompuDynes, that is the configuration recommended as well.
It was somewhere in the slightly higher CPU (and BIOS) range that things started to change. The recommendations were for speed, do not connect to same channel as the HDD, and for compatibility/boot (and with Warp, sometimes even seeing it) set to slave.
Those are each the reason why the drives came factory set to slave (and the older machines seemed to prefer it - at least the ones that used the same chipsets and similar BIOS's to the IBMs) - because (1) it would be correct in a single cable setup, and (2) it would be correct and work in a dual IDE channel/cable setup.
The newer machines (the second series of 400MHz and up) preferred Master for CD-ROM on second controller for boot.
So perhaps I should have clarified that. His machine straddles that line (and cant tell on what side without knowing model information and such). Because it does leave a plethora of old machines that require it on the master setting for booting - but also a bunch of even older ones that use the slave channel.
I'm actually a little vague on the reasons - but I think it had to do with the ATAPI support on the drive and mobo... from the OS/2 CD ROM installation notes of that time (machines older than his, to about that age):
OS/2 Warp Installation With IDE CD-ROM
Symptom -
End user wants to know if OS/2 will work with IDE CD-ROM drives. Cause -
The cause of this issue is unknown at this time. Resolution -
OS/2 Warp and OS/2 Warp Connect will install correctly and work properly with all of our current model IDE CD-ROM (Panasonic 571/572, NEC 271/272) drives without software modification. This statement is true as long as the following two rules are followed.
1. The IDE CD-ROM is ATAPI v1.2 compliant.
2. The IDE CD-ROM cannot be configured as the Master.
This issue seemed to affect other operations as well (CD boot) on older machines with older ATAPI support, as well as a large amount of other drives - many at that time were made by those two companies (for instance, Creative's and IBM's drives were usually the Panasonics - and either labelled Creative, Creative-Panasonic, or IBM (with Panasonic's part number or for the multimedia kits, with Creative's part number (and when for IBM, Creative's part number with a letter appeneded and blue buttons).
------------------------------------------------
I think his kinda straddles that line (though maybe it is clearly "on the newer and this doesnt apply side") - but it has been ages...
BIG correction:
The notes below seem to apply to Pentium Level machines (not PII or equivalent - or higher) with ancient IDE support, and/or ancient IDE CD-ROM drives and/or ancient ATAPI support in OS/2.
So unless Tommy's machine has one or more of the above (ancient IDE/BIOS support and/or an ancient IDE drive and/or ancient ATAPI drivers in OS/2), it should not apply.
Tommy, PM Ivan for the updated drivers as he mentioned in the TCP/IP thread and give them a whirl. The Dani drivers alone may resolve your issue with the CD-ROM drive.
Sorry for the confusion - been a while since I've run OS/2 on anything other than a PIII or above (not counting my IBM Thinkpad, which is an entirely different beast than most other machines of the age).
Leaving my post below in case by some chance of fate it applies to some weird configuration/chipset in Tommy's machine or some other ancient machine someone else may be running.
Thanks for making me dig for a clarification Ivan, and for being on top of it.
Rob
Hi Robert,
If you're going that far back then almost anything goes :)
I remember the old Packard Bells and how some worked one way and some the other. In fact I just opened the one I keep here, it belonged to my late daughter, to see how I'd cabled up the CD. It's slave to the hard disk because there is only one IDE interface. If I remember correctly a lot of the early machines only had the one IDE interface hence the reason most CD drives came jumpered as slave.
As long as the old machines survive we'll have to remember how to get them working as most of the youngsters of today only know about dual or quad core boxes.
Anyway thanks for reminding me of the old old desktop machines and their quirks, at least they didn't have as many as some of the punched card readers or 8 inch drives.
Hi Robert and Ivan,
I am unsure as to why the Celeron PC would not boot to a CD. It was set in the BIOS to boot to CD first, then to hard drive second. I tried the CD drive as master, as slave, on Primary and Secondary controllers, and I even ripped out the drive and put another one in, but nothing made the PC boot. It did not matter what hard drive was in, or what type of bootable CD was in, I tried my bootable Easeus DiskCopy 2.3 CD, Windows 2000, Windows NT, and Windows 95 CDs, and no matter what I did the PC just said "Missing Operating System". I then put the hard drive into a fairly similar PC system with a 700MHz Celeron, and it booted to CD flawlessly. I finally got a working, booting clone of my OS/2 Warp3 Connect hard drive. I can now fiddle around with it without fear of losing everything as I have the original drive kept safe.
Once booted into OS/2, however, the CD drive does not show up under "Drives" or in the Win3.11 File Manager. So, any chance of loading software off the Hobbes CD is out, at least for the time being.
Quote from: ivan on 2009.03.31, 15:28:24
Hi Tommy,
Sorry I missed the bit about increasing the partition size to one over 2GB. I assumed when you said clone you meant just that, a partition the same size as the original.
Ah, I should point out, EASEUS DiskCopy clones a
partition at a time, so my 545MB original drive was copied to the 4.3GB drive as a 545MB partition, and the same when copying to the 1.2GB drive. It appears there may be something at fault with the 4.3GB drive, as I made a clone of a WinNT4.0 hard drive on that same drive later on, and it also would not boot. But that no longer matters, I now have a booting clone which I can experiment with. The original can be kept safe, to avoid any unrecoverable disasters.
EASEUS DiskCopy never alters the partition in any way when copying, so your source partition will always be the same size on the copy. If you want to change the partition size, EASEUS also market a repartitioning utility. I have not tried that one yet.
QuoteAh, I should point out, EASEUS DiskCopy clones a partition at a time, so my 545MB original drive was copied to the 4.3GB drive as a 545MB partition, and the same when copying to the 1.2GB drive
That's what I found when I tried it on a virtual machine but didn't know if you had used something like Partition Magic to expand it (old versions of PM will work with OS/2 newer don't).
There is a way to check if your 4.3 GB drive is OK. Set it to SLAVE and add it as the second drive to your working MASTER. You can then see if it appears with a drive letter in the drives object. If it does you can try to format it HPFS, if it does not then use FDISKPM.EXE (in OS/2 dir) and see if it appears there, if not find nearest garbage bin and dump. If it does appear, delete all partitions and remake, reboot and see if they appear in the drives object, if not - bin.
BTW the iso I have of the updates has information on making floppies for installing. I once updated a box with only two floppies and a second box. Insert floppy and start update, have second floppy ready, swap when told, put floppy in second box and write disk, repeat as necessary. Tedious but works.
I have been rebuilding various computers recently (OK I admit it was a Windows 98 PC... ahem...), and today I decided to put the OS/2 clone into the vacant 400MHz Celeron system, together with the correct Matrox G400 dual-head video card.
And guess what? It wouldn't boot! The system posted, then when the OS/2 block should have appeared in the top-left corner, there was nothing... except a flashing white cursor.
The system I made the clone on was a Celeron 700MHz system, and I used the same video card. I have checked the BIOS settings in the 400MHz computer and the hdd is detected as Pri.master and set as the second boot device after floppy. And yes I checked the floppy drive, which was empty!
I have tried rebooting several times, but it just goes to a flashing white cursor, no OS/2 block ever appears. Where may the system be going wrong, and how may I sort it most effectively?
I have the OS/2 installation floppies and CD ROM handy, but I thought I should ask before I do anything with them, just in case the problem does not require the installation media.
Since submitting the above post I've put in the setup boot floppy just to see what it would do, and it says:
OS/2!! SYS01475
OS/2!! SYS02027
Hi Tommy,
OS/2!! SYS01475 the file OS2BOOT cannot be found.
OS/2!! SYS02027 insert a system diskette and restart the system.
It appears you have either a dud floppy disk or the floppy drive has a fault (unplugged cable, dirt on heads or just dead).
You need to be sure all the cables are secure on the drives and motherboard. Then go into the bios and set it to show everything as the system starts (find something like 'quick power on self test' and set it to disabled). Then when you start the machine you should be able to see if the hard disk is found. If it isn't then fix that problem first. If it is, then you have to go through the procedures we outlined earlier (if it's a FAT formatted then run sysinstx against it, but that requires a working floppy drive).
The other thing is to use a bootable DOS diskette and see if you can boot the machine with that - if not then it may be time to consign the old box to the tip.
Hi Tommy,
If the floppy drive turns out to be good, then the problem (as noted above) is probably the disk - but the problem may not be the disk being bad - it could simply be the wrong one (see "EITHER WAY" below.
Is this an original disk, or one that you created?
If you created it, did you use the tools that come with OS/2? The method is:
XDFCOPY (LOCATION OF FILE)\DISK0.DSK A:
If memory serves, you can use the xdfcopy program on a Windows machine from a command prompt. Inotherwords, if you dont have a running OS/2 machine, simply copy the xdfcopy file from the OS/2 CD, and copy the DISK0.DSK file from same CD onto a Windows machine and then run the command.
EITHER WAY: Disk0 is the bootable floppy (should be labeled "Install Disk") followed by disk1.dsk (and disk2.dsk for Warp 4 upwards).
Thus the other potential problem is if you are starting with disk1.dsk, you aren't using the bootable floppy at all. IBM has a tendency of labelling things in a more computer oriented manner (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) instead of the way humans generally would (1, 2, 3, 4, etc).
Robert
Sorry Robert. the install disks are created with LOADDSKF because they are DOS readable. The other disks are created with XDFCOPY!
Oops! Yes Robert I put in the wrong floppy. ::) But I'm still curious as to why the hard drive will not boot in this PC. The PC I made it on was also a Celeron with a 100MHz fsb. I am using the same video card. I cannot help thinking if it boots in one PC it should boot in the other.
OK since typing that, I have got the OS/2 Warp 3 Connect CD to load (using the correct floppies :-[) , and I have used it to access the hard drive via a command prompt. Unfortunately I don't know how to use cmd to tell the hard drive to boot, and if I did, how would I know what to fix? I tried typing chkdsk /fixmbr, but it said it "cannot accept the fixmbrc parameter". At least I can browse the hard drive's contents in text mode.
The CD is now sitting at the EASY Installation / ADVANCED Installation screen. As I don't want to overwrite my entire drive after spending so long setting it up, I have not gone past this point.
Tommy, the simple thing to try is to go to a command prompt by booting from your floppies. this should give you an A:> prompt. Then with the first (bootable) floppy in the drive type SYSINSTX C: followed by hitting enter. This will put the necessary boot information on your hard disk FAT partition.
If it still does not boot after that then I think you will have to through a fresh install unless Robert has any other ideas.
OK Ivan, I've done that. I still can't get it to boot. After post, the computer just goes to a flashing white dash in the top left corner of the screen. I cannot understand this... this drive booted perfectly in the Windows 98 PC, which is also a Celeron... just a different make and model of motherboard. I even transplanted the exact same Matrox G400 video card. There must be something else happening which is preventing it from booting. I've been through the BIOS settings and cannot find anything amiss.
I've tried a Windows 2000 hard drive in this (Celeron 400) PC now, and it booted perfectly. It originally came out of the Celeron 700. I made the clone of the OS/2 drive on the Celeron 700. Both machines have the same fsb speed. The Win2000 drive will boot on both PCs. The old OS/2 (source) drive also boots on both PCs, but the clone drive only boots on the 700(!?). The system is detecting something in the boot sector, otherwise it would say "Missing operating system" or "Invalid system disk". It just won't start OS/2, the white OS/2 block never appears. I'm also wondering if it could be an obscure motherboard fault. The CD ROM drive also will not boot, regardless of how I set it up in BIOS. Even if I set it as a first or second boot item, it never boots. I tried a Windows 95 CD and a Windows 2000 CD. It just bypassed the drive altogether. I swapped drives twice, and all three CD drives failed to boot. Perhaps there may be a link here... it might provide a clue as to why some drives will boot in this system and others won't.
Tommy, I think you may be right in thinking there is a fault on the motherboard or it nay just be the way the IDE controller sees the hard disk. The older motherboards had various ways of setting up hard disks (LBA, large, etc.). If there is a difference between the two motherboards then you have problems because this motherboard can not see the drive layout.
If this is the case then you will have to FDISK and Format the drive on that motherboard, then the simple expedient of ziping up your install from a drive that works, burning it to CD and then unziping it on to the prepared drive (requires a third floppy disk with unzip and system files on it. You boot to a command prompt, swap to the third disk and use unzip).
Just remember, there comes a time when it is wise to cut your losses and give up trying to get it to work. I do know the frustration of something not working when it should. A friend brought in his computer because it had stopped working, could I fix it? I spent three weeks, on and off, on it only to tell him in the end it would not work as he had overheated it and most of the problems were intermittent.
One thing you can try is, download DFSee DOS boot disk, leave your harddisk in the system and boot from the DFSee floppy. Maybe DFSee shows you errors on startup about wrong CHS values or 'some bios can not boot' or something like that. Maybe this gives us a clue what's going wrong....
Can You give another look to BIOS setup and try to set to default, or factory, or similar... or check to shut off any DMA, "block mode" and PIO related accelerations, and check HDD recognition (is it on auto or CHS defined?)?
Quote from: Andi on 2009.04.15, 14:44:55
One thing you can try is, download DFSee DOS boot disk, leave your harddisk in the system and boot from the DFSee floppy. Maybe DFSee shows you errors on startup about wrong CHS values or 'some bios can not boot' or something like that. Maybe this gives us a clue what's going wrong....
Thanks Andi, I'll give it a go next week when I have some time off work.