| Subject | : | WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 04 Jul, 2003 on 16:09 |
| To continue the misplaced discussion from http://www.os2world.com/cgi-bin/ultraboard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=3&TID=208&SID=57252 and to give Vlad or other WarpVision project members a change to explain why they do not open the sources to WVGUI despite using LGPL and GPL sources in their project, I start this topic. I found snippets of the following projects in video2.exe: |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | dink enigma2@eesc.com |
| Date | : | 04 Jul, 2003 on 18:32 |
| jesus christ! get a life already |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | JonOS/2 |
| Date | : | 04 Jul, 2003 on 20:01 |
| pw, what kind of person are you? Those guys are at least trying to keep OS/2 alive. I dare bet you're not a real OS/2 user; otherwhise you wouldn't be selling this kind of non-sense. Read your the REAL GPL clearly; and see what Microsoft does with it. Then I think that we all needn't complain about WaprVision. So please stop with this kind of demotivating crap, since I and a lot of other people want those developer to be motivated and continue to be until the bitter OS/2 end. Deal? |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | devnul |
| Date | : | 04 Jul, 2003 on 20:35 |
| PW is right. Nothing more needs to be said |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 04 Jul, 2003 on 21:26 |
JonOS/2, please tell me which part of the GPL I should read again!
Do you really think Microsoft would steal the WarpVision code when they can already take the Win32 code from the MPlayer and VideoLan projects? From my point of view the WarpVision people just need to publish their complete source. That would definitely help to keep OS/2 alive and I don't think it would diminish their success in getting donations. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | dink enigma2@eesc.com |
| Date | : | 05 Jul, 2003 on 07:56 |
| the wvgui author can do whatever the hell he wants, if you don't like the way he releases his stuff then don't use it and quit you're bitching, ya whiney-ass pansey. you should be greatfull he's releaseing anything at all. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | devnul |
| Date | : | 05 Jul, 2003 on 09:46 |
| Welcome in brave new OS/2 steal code, extort users if they complain. whats next ? congratulations Dink Such deserves the only possible answer: THANKS NO |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 05 Jul, 2003 on 11:12 |
| dink, care to explain why _you_ get so agitated? If you can further explain why you think he is right instead of just cursing then do it! You have said before that you do not release z! as open source because you don't want it to be stolen. And now that somebody is doing just that with someone elses code you find it OK? And as I have said before, I do not use WVGUI anymore, I just downloaded it to check the first claim that is only uses FFMPEG and nothing else. And thanks, devnul. At least one proper soul among the OS/2 community. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | nickk |
| Date | : | 05 Jul, 2003 on 21:53 |
| As dink said in another thread , warpvision sources are available through cvs. The wvgui = warpvision + some gui controls. I see no point why a couple of guys are bitching there. May be they are just an angry too young couple. But ir will definitely get away when you'll grow. So, just have enough patience to wait. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | devnul |
| Date | : | 05 Jul, 2003 on 22:24 |
| When everything is in harmony -as some tend to make us believe, why is then Warpvision on mplayers blacklist ? |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 06 Jul, 2003 on 09:27 |
The last CVS checkin was on 7th of May, i.e. two months ago. And from the Changelog a lot has happened since then. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net |
| Date | : | 06 Jul, 2003 on 14:17 |
As long as it remains free and has no mandatory fee then there is no reason why they cannot do whatever they wish with it. Dispite mplayer's homepages claims to the contrary the wv cli and wv gui development teams do clearly note that it uses source from the project. Mplayer's development team has no wishes to support OS/2 so the diff's (if any) which make it function as part of warp vision is completely useless to them,. As long as it remains free there is no reason to gripe. I was the first on the badnwagon on the april 1st release (be it a joke or not) that timed out after 15 mins. There are obviously siome difference between mplayer & wv seeing as every time I've tried it (using current versions of wvgui & mplayer) wvgui yielded better platyback, but most likely because they found a better piece in another project and replaced something in mplayer, which the original authors would never want to do to their project mostly because their pride would be hurt.. but anyway.. it is free.. I haven't donated yet.. but that doesn't exclue the possibility. It is one of the more useful applications OS/2 has right now.. if they could get streaming to work and make a mozilla plugin... my check would be in the mail ![]() On another note... dink claiming z isn't open sourced because he doesn't want it stolen would be a) errournous (since if it was used in another free application he probably wouldn't care) b) is the reason why he doesn't release it open source so if the mplayer team didn't want it to be used that badly they didn't have to opensource to begin with.. it is something of a catch 22.. but point is.. neither application is commerical so there really is no loss here. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 07 Jul, 2003 on 17:52 |
On their webpage, yes. But they do not show the licences which they have to. Nor is there any mention in the package they offer to download. I find many things about their project strange and confusing, e.g. - Since the beginning they were talking about merging CLI and GUI, but this never happened. Instead GUI was improved while CLI was not. - Until somehow pressed end of last year they did not show which Linux projects they really used as base of their project. - AFAICS it is nowhere documented, how to use Win32 DLLs and which of those are supported, which are superseded by a native solution. And what the difference between GUI and CLI is in this regard. - Yves Letourneau stepped down as English translator/documentation checker because of communication problems. If they had problems with the language then there should be a way to write the stuff only in Russian and find a capable translator (there are a few in the OS/2 community).
But it could be useful to OS/2 and eCS users like myself who want to compile the thing themselves. Just for fun. And the diffs should not only be against the MPlayer part of the code, but also against the original FFMPEG, libdvdread, and other used libraries. And some time in the future the current developers will probably use interest (as with very many OS/2 projects), and then the source will help the ensure that this project remains alive.
Somehow I have difficulty understanding what you write about dink and Z!. But certainly the MPlayer guys wanted their code to be used, under the GPL license! That means that other developers are welcome to use their code, when they publish their new project as open source under the same license. But obviously the WarpVision guys have no interest in playing by these rules. No answer to my polite email about checking in the current sources, no update to the CVS code, and no answer here... |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | warpcafe warpcafe@yahoo.de |
| Date | : | 07 Jul, 2003 on 21:44 |
Woohoo! Flame wars on os2world? ![]() Now, I don't know the folks of wv team, but afai can tell, life in russia is quite hard and those guys might possibly just save their little spare time to improve the product itself instead of dealing with the "rest" like updating cvs frequently, doing the paperwork, (L)GPL notice and readme stuff. Thomas |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | nickk |
| Date | : | 08 Jul, 2003 on 08:39 |
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| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | nickk |
| Date | : | 08 Jul, 2003 on 08:44 |
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| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 09 Jul, 2003 on 11:30 |
And that proverb is only about sources but not about binaries? ![]() I thought that's exactly what CVS is for?! It is normally not expected to have clean code in such a repository. And you should know yourself that hardly any software is ever "finished", open source or not... Anyway, we could go on discussing this, but there isn't really any point, as the WV guys obviously have nothing to say. What a shame to be part of a community which does not care about the basics of open source! |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | devnul |
| Date | : | 09 Jul, 2003 on 12:34 |
Jugding the whole by some black-sheeps isn't quite helpful. Most developers (or should I say almost any with some minor exceptions) take care when they use open-source. And they have good reasons to do so, cause having a'good' contact with original developer(s) sometimes solves problems, saves time ... |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 09 Jul, 2003 on 12:50 |
You are right there, of course. But this topic has been read more than 300 times now, but has not had any effect other than a bit of flaming and me more or less having made a fool of myself. Yours are the only "proper" responses, the others just do not seem to care. |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | devnul |
| Date | : | 09 Jul, 2003 on 14:54 |
What did you expect ? Playing devils advocate isn't an easy job. But maybe some words of Miguel Cervantes helps you to resist 'they believed of it as a sign of near death, seeing him transformed that easily from a fool to a rational man' |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | warpcafe warpcafe@yahoo.de |
| Date | : | 09 Jul, 2003 on 19:45 |
Hmm... so my response wasn't 'proper', right? Thomas |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | LightElf lightelf@os2.kiev.ua |
| Date | : | 10 Jul, 2003 on 10:44 |
| Just for note. It can be many reasons, why sources of WVGUI was not published... ![]() Please, be sure this is not a note from WVGUI developers, just my opinion (I am not related with WV developing). 1. Maintaining downlodable sourcecode is additional job and need additional time. Some time ago this sources was available from CVS and nothing happened. Nobody want to contribute, nobody want to work with it... So why care about it's availability? If you experienced coder and really want to help - there are many ways to help developing. If you want to know, how it work - you can always get well-known opensource projects and see original code, which was not screwed by russian pirates. 2. It's not clear, are GPL can be a suitable license for any MPEG/MPEG2 player at all. At least clause 7 of GPL can't be satisfied in any case. Any MPEG/MPEG2 player is a subject to royalty to apropriate patent holders. Regards, |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | pw pweilba@gwdg.de |
| Date | : | 10 Jul, 2003 on 11:37 |
Well, it was more "proper" than dink's posts. ![]() That's a good idea. Obviously they ignore my emails so someone else could try it. Perhaps the OS/2-eZine is a better place for an interview. But I am definitely in favor of a "behind the scenes" look! Ukranian pirates in this case. ![]() Hmm, interesting point. I thought that patents only apply to MP3 (Fraunhofer Institute in that case), and that they only enforce their patent on commercial applications (e.g. hardware MP3 players). Or am I confusing the formats again? Who holds patents for MPEG1/2? Do they enforce them on Open Source software? |
| Subject | : | Re:WVGUI not honoring (L)GPL |
| Author | : | LightElf lightelf@os2.kiev.ua |
| Date | : | 10 Jul, 2003 on 12:58 |
Hmm, interesting point. I thought that patents only apply to MP3 (Fraunhofer Institute in that case), and that they only enforce their patent on commercial applications (e.g. hardware MP3 players). Or am I confusing the formats again? Who holds patents for MPEG1/2? Do they enforce them on Open Source software?[/quote] You can see MPEG2 licensing policy at www.mpegla.com. About MP3 - this is another story and GPL MP3 player are also illegal (from GPL point's of view). MP3 licensing utilize terms commercial/freeware, not a closed/open sourced. GPL allow you to sell GPL-software (like Red Hat does) and requere any GPL-software to be royalty-free. This is a reason, why GPL MP3 player incompatible with section 7 of GPL and FSF FAQ. |