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XGL and OS/2
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El Vato
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1. XGL and OS/2
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Considering the "coolness" of XGL on my SuSE/Debian Linux distros, I was wondering if there is any effort under way for a port on the OS/2 side.

Noting that OpenGL is a necessary component of the above X server < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xgl >, up to date (OpenGL) support is a prerequisite on the OS/2 platform.

How do we fare on the above? Are we way too far back in the latter (OpenGL) implementation that the former(XGL) is simply not feasible?

Although the M$ Vista os will be (purportedly) bringing a similar interface, it is already a reality in open source with the appropriate window managers. Noting, additionally, that the XGL is simply a separate component, much like XFREE86/2 under OS/2, I am inclined to believe that a port to OS/2 is ( at least in theory) non contradictory --if OpenGL (drivers, etc.) is current, of course.

...And perhaps the most important question, how many of us use the XFREE86/2 and Unix/linux utilities so as to regard XGL a worthy addition/option to OS/2.

Date: 08 Oct, 2006 on 06:27
Ben Dragon
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2. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Isn't Cairo the latest attempt at OpenGL for OS/2?

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Date: 08 Oct, 2006 on 18:18
cyberspittle
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3. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Having XGL on OS/2 would be similiar to runnin XFREE86/2, as it is a X-Window manager for Linux (and Unix). If XFree86 supports OpenGL, then it is possible. XGL questions should be directed to the Unixos2.org group (-> http://www.unixos2.com/).

What would really be nice for eCS (and OS/2) is to redo the Program Manager code in OpenGL (as it has 2D API). Then we would only need OpenGL drivers to run OS/2. Running OpenGL on OS/2 sucks as it is in software only (no hardware support has exxisted that I know of).

Date: 08 Oct, 2006 on 19:08
El Vato
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4. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Ben Dragon (08 Oct, 2006 18:1:
Isn't Cairo the latest attempt at OpenGL for OS/2?

Thank you for the information; I was not aware of any OS/2 development efforts related to XGL until now. I found this link < http://cairographics.org/backends > and it provided info about the OS/2 work being done by Doodle (and the insight that he has benefited from by his efforts).

Notwithstanding, it seems that Doodle's efforts are merely the surface of what needs to be accomplished if there will (if ever) be an XGL-Compiz environment under OS/2.

Cyberspittle provided further insight into the current status of another major component needed: "..a redo of the Program Manager code in OpenGL (as it has 2D API)."

If OS/2 were open sourced, the above would not be as challenging as it now stands.

Anyhow, thanks for the reply. I was probing around for some insight and I got it. In some other list that I used to post such questions, I never got a reply.

Date: 09 Oct, 2006 on 10:58
El Vato
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5. Re:XGL and OS/2
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cyberspittle (08 Oct, 2006 19:0:
Having XGL on OS/2 would be similiar to runnin XFREE86/2, as it is a X-Window manager for Linux (and Unix). If XFree86 supports OpenGL, then it is possible. XGL questions should be directed to the Unixos2.org group (-> http://www.unixos2.com/).[/quote]

Well, actually XGL is another X server and hence we share the same conclussion. On the other hand, Compiz is one of the two window managers available to XGL --and the one that I am using at present with SuSE/Debian (the other being Beryl).

Since I regard the OS/2 as an integrating platform, I normally use the Unix/Linux utilities (the public domain Korn Shell as my default OS/2 command line with the EMX runtime), but I had not visited the UnixOS2 site above for some time (years).

The last time I visited was (I think) to download Holger's XFREE86/2 development environment in an attempt to (re)build the above X server version 3.X.

Thank you for the info/suggestion --it is appreciated in my quest for concrete answers about the OS/2.

Date: 09 Oct, 2006 on 11:28
Cris
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6. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Ben Dragon (08 Oct, 2006 18:1:
Isn't Cairo the latest attempt at OpenGL for OS/2?

No, Cairo is a 2D vector graphics libary, it has nothing to do with OpenGL (other than the fact that an OpenGL backend exists for Cairo).

Bye
Cris

Date: 09 Oct, 2006 on 11:54
Ben Dragon
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7. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Cris (09 Oct, 2006 11:54):
No, Cairo is a 2D vector graphics libary, it has nothing to do with OpenGL (other than the fact that an OpenGL backend exists for Cairo).

I seem to recall a discussion somewhere not too long ago, (I can't remember exactly where, but I'm working on it), in which Cairo was to be the first step towards a new implementation of OpenGL for eCS/OS2, hence my initial reply.

...something about once Cairo was completed the path for an OpenGL
port would be both easier and coming.

I hadn't meant to say that Cairo was a new OpenGL port, but I meant it as a pointer to a place to find the latest about OpenGL work, WRT eCS/OS2 ...

Maybe somene who's actually working on the project, (i.e. Doodle), could step in and offer up something soild and say a few words on the future of OpenGL with respect to Cairo .

I, for one, would like to know more about this...

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Date: 09 Oct, 2006 on 16:51
cyberspittle
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8. Re:XGL and OS/2
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As far as OpenGL on OS/2 goes (to the best of my knowledge):

OS/2 Warp 4 provided OpenGL support (no hardware drivers) for OpenGL 1.1.

To do any 3D on OS/2 (eCS) we need drivers that provided 3D support.

SciTech Software is a great resource for OS/2 video drivers and library for developers, but we still do no have OpenGL support in hardware.

Emulating OpenGL is in software is slow. We do have some OpenGL programs (a screensaver), however it would look so much better if we had hardware support.

Buying the latest 3D card and having drivers to use it, but with only 2D support ... about all that we do now with eCS and OS/2.

To create a new GUI using OpenGL does not require open sourcing OS/2, as we would have to start from scratch. It would primarily use the 2D features of OpenGL, but would require a drivers with OpenGL support.

That is why all my 3D graphics are done with POV-Ray, as it doesn't require 3D acceleration or drivers.

Date: 10 Oct, 2006 on 03:37 Attachment: 2_1wwallb.jpg
Doodle
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9. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Ben Dragon (09 Oct, 2006 16:51):

Maybe somene who's actually working on the project, [/color] (i.e. Doodle), could step in and offer up something soild and say a few words on the future of OpenGL with respect to Cairo .

I, for one, would like to know more about this...


Here I am.

Cairo itself is not related to OpenGL. Cairo is a 2D graphical library, which can be used to draw vector graphics with nice antialiasing and things like that. Very much like the GPI/GDI API of OS/2, but it's opensource and supports antialiasing, which makes it possible to produce very nice outputs even on lower resolutions.

It has some backends in which it can produce the output. It's capable of drawing something into memory, into a PNG file, now into an OS/2 window, and yes, it has an OpenGL backend, so it can draw into an OpenGL surface, but that's all, it doesn't make it to do any 3D graphics.

The current OpenGL possibilities of OS/2 (IMHO) are:
IBM's OpenGL implementation, which sucks (outdated, buggy).
The MesaGL port which works in a window, but has absolutely no HW acceleration.
SNAP's OpenGL implementation which is currently not HW accelerated, but has the potential to be HW accelerated once. However, it only works in fullscreen sessions (yet).

I guess it would be technically possible to compile the XGL stuff to OS/2's XFree86/2, but that would surely use Mesa (the software-only OpenGL implementation), so it would be way too slow to be enjoyable.

Doodle

Date: 10 Oct, 2006 on 08:47
Ben Dragon
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10. Re:XGL and OS/2
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Doodle (10 Oct, 2006 08:47):

The current OpenGL possibilities of OS/2 (IMHO) are:
IBM's OpenGL implementation, which sucks (outdated, buggy).
The MesaGL port which works in a window, but has absolutely no HW acceleration.
SNAP's OpenGL implementation which is currently not HW accelerated, but has the potential to be HW accelerated once. However, it only works in fullscreen sessions (yet).

I guess it would be technically possible to compile the XGL stuff to OS/2's XFree86/2, but that would surely use Mesa (the software-only OpenGL implementation), so it would be way too slow to be enjoyable.



Well, that's all very depressing. I ,(and others, I'm sure), was hoping for something more substantial WRT to OpenGL. But what is, is.

Well, I guess there are more important things than 3D graphics that need working on under eCS/OS2, but still, 3D woulda been nice. :\

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Date: 10 Oct, 2006 on 15:56
XGL and OS/2
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