| Subject | : | OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | landreth i.h@te.spam.com |
| Date | : | 15 Oct, 2003 on 19:34 |
| Just wondering but was has been said regarding OS2 and the Hyper-Threading technology that Intel now supports with their newer P4 FSB800MHz CPU's? But is it worth getting an OS2 SMP licens? |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | davidfor |
| Date | : | 16 Oct, 2003 on 03:05 |
| There has been a bit said in the newsgroups about it some months ago. I can't remember if anyone proved it would work. Someone did run OS/2 on HyperThread chip, but, I'm not sure if they had an SMP version, and if OS/2 saw it as two chips or not. Sorry, that's all I remember. It's been a few months, and I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. David |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | devnul |
| Date | : | 16 Oct, 2003 on 14:38 |
| If it works (using a SMP-kernel) or not depends heavily on the way how Hyperthreading is activated in the BIOS of the motherboard. Some might work, many will not. As Hyperthreading brings only a boost with not so well written (or threaded) apps OS/2 kernel developers believe that it won't bring signifikant fortunes using it together with OS/2. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | guff |
| Date | : | 16 Oct, 2003 on 16:30 |
| By Intel docs, hyperthreading is only to be enabled for ACPI aware os'. (windows, and latest linux kernels). os/2 smp is required to utilize any multiproc hardware. however, os2 relies on the MPS (multiprocessor spec) to identify these procs. bios's should never describe the secondary logical processor in a physical processor package in the mps table. however if both the primary and secondary procs are described, os2 smp versions will detect and use both cores...but there is no guarantee as to functionallity due to some possible programming vs processor tech problems.
|
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | zionite |
| Date | : | 18 Oct, 2003 on 11:18 |
| Well installing OS2 ACP2 on a system that had P4 HT CPU didn't make any different for me. I've installed it with the SMP support but the system booted up with only one CPU within the CPU meter. Not that I did expect anything else. Running with Win XP and Linux gave me the virtual extra CPU. So I think that currently there is no way of getting any extra out of a P4 HT FSB 800MHz CPU. We can only hope that there corporate customers will force IBM to include and support this feature in newer CPUs. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 19 Oct, 2003 on 12:40 |
| Just wondering then based on what guff writes, would it mean that with some luck on using the correct moderboard you might get OS2 to support and show up 2 cpu's then? Anyone that might be able to confirm this? /Kim |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | davidfor |
| Date | : | 20 Oct, 2003 on 02:01 |
I did a quick google this morning for the thread I mentioned. It's: Hyperthreading -- Scott?. There are other threads on the same topic, but, this is probably the one with the best info (the others tend to descend into name calling). David |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 20 Oct, 2003 on 13:03 |
| Ok, among other there is mentioned a smp fix, bsmp8603.zip, that someone at Intel has tested on their free time for Serenity. So I would like to get that fix if possible. The rest of the thread doesn't really say anything if anypne outside Intel than has manage to pull the same stunt off, ie getting OS2 to support HT. /Kim |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 20 Oct, 2003 on 13:45 |
| I have now also tested with the smp kernal update from 2003.08.22 without any luck of HT under ACP2 SMP. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | guff |
| Date | : | 21 Oct, 2003 on 08:56 |
i wouldn't count on it or even look for it. and i wouldn't run os2 w/ HyperThreading in a serious production environment. multiple physical cpus will always out perform these logical cpus. however if you really wanted to use em on a lot of systems....i would suggest reading the mps1.4 spec (on intel's dev site), and then writing some code to 'rewrite the mps table' your computer's bios put together, adding in entries for the secondary logical processors. it may not work well, but it could be a fun coding exercise. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 26 Oct, 2003 on 20:48 |
I like the idea of having a competition regarding writing proper support for OS2 and HT. But, then again, how many would attend... But, of course everything has it's prize so if we could gather some money together to offer the best code writer for it.. .. if it's possible to add this kind of feature without having to make kernal changes, doubt it. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net |
| Date | : | 27 Oct, 2003 on 13:13 |
| I think the main thing that would hurt such a competition is the goal, HT can actually cause the system to run slower then the same system without using HT. Why would anyone want to get this working if it is only going to hurt performance or at the best not show much of an improvement at all? |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 14 Dec, 2003 on 20:25 |
| Regarding performance and HT do you have any suggestion on additional info, ie links to articles or sources? Would be nice to read about this issue. I can't say that I have gained any speed on my system using. Well, ok the Windows system info says 2 CPUs... Wow..... /Kim |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Sebadoh sys3175@optonline.net |
| Date | : | 14 Dec, 2003 on 23:49 |
| Check out benchmarks on hyperthreaded systems, most end up with little or no gains, especially since microsoft's multiprocessor support is very lacking, however the few apps which show any improvement, mostly adobe applications only show a very small margin of improvement,. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 02 Jan, 2004 on 13:14 |
| True, when looking around for benchmarks it doesn't look good. Or as said at Overclockers.com: Seems to me that just about the most Hyperthreaded-optimized program out there is Sandra. This is not good, and greatly reduces the value of the Sandra CPU Performance Test as a general benchmark comparison between Intel and AMD. But, looking at the following image it tend to look good, for a second or so.. Or this one taken from 2cpu.com: Now this was the shocker I was looking for; disabling hyperthreading for our DivX encoding increased performance dramatically, especially in my testing with the slower Xeons. For more reading check out following two articles: |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 08 Jan, 2004 on 12:58 |
| There is a new article regarding P4 HT at 2CPU.Com, might be interesting reading since they have some new test results that looks better than earlier test that I've seen. For full article, check this url: |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | kidmarc |
| Date | : | 08 Jan, 2004 on 14:45 |
| Before embarking on support proper of SMT on Intel's P4, you may want to analyze whether SMT is worthy of such endeavor. For one, it only applies to Intel chips (P4); another... are the results only to be obtained by this method or are there other methods which do so. Peace |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | jer jksamphere@yahoo.com |
| Date | : | 08 Jan, 2004 on 19:06 |
| P4 Hyper-Threading is nothing more than Intel & M$ trying to make up for Windows lack of performance due to its lack of a "real threading achitecture". OS/2 & eComStation are good examples of "real threading architecture"...hence there is no need to support a "virtual SMP" system. As noted here already those systems are not significantly faster compared to a real SMP system. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | Kim |
| Date | : | 09 Jan, 2004 on 15:21 |
| Wondering here then, but are there are CPU brands that have a similar feature as what Intel tried to push out with the HT feature within the P4? |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | JonOS/2 |
| Date | : | 11 Jan, 2004 on 08:29 |
| Did you know that in order to use SMP you don't have to purchase the eCS SMP Pack, not ACP? It's just one file you must add to config.sys; a file that is included in MCP. And eCS includes a license to use MCP, so.... |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | abwillis abwillis@comcast.net |
| Date | : | 14 Jan, 2004 on 15:12 |
| What I would like to know is if vpc can make use of the hyperthreading as it seems to use the processor directly. If it can then even if OS/2 can't make use of it then maybe windoze running under VPC/2 could and thereby get better performance. Andy |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | LewisR |
| Date | : | 19 Jan, 2004 on 07:15 |
| Hi, Andy. Fancy meeting you here!? My recollection is that VPC is informed of the running CPU from the underlying OS. However, if the underlying OS' kernel doesn't support particular features of the CPU (e.g., hyperthreading), then neither will the virtual machine. There was some talk of the upside and downside of hyperthreading (specifically under OS/2) on the newsgroups some time back. Scott weighed in on this, and his initial thought was that hyperthreading would give little if any performance gain, and the overhead might even impose a penalty (under OS/2). Considering his comments, I doubt that he's got support for hyperthreading on his short list, but you never know; Scott is one of those guys who's likely to surprise us with a gift or two when we least expect it! I just set up a new NetWare 6 server for a client. This one is a Proliant (gee, I hate the sound of "HP" Proliant; it's still a Compaq to me) ML370 G3 with a single P4 Xeon 2.8GHz CPU. NetWare 6 immediately recognized two CPUs (hyperthreading enabled). In fact, I had to actually open the case, as I swore that I ordered the box with only one CPU for this client (I usually do dual processors on NetWare these days). Sure enough, one processor and a terminator. I'm not sure if the system would perform better with the hyperthreading stuff turned off, though; it's pretty kickin' right now... Have a good one. Catch you later. Lewis -------------------------- Lewis G Rosenthal, CNA Rosenthal & Rosenthal |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | abwillis abwillis@comcast.net |
| Date | : | 19 Jan, 2004 on 16:51 |
Howdy Lewis, |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | kidmarc |
| Date | : | 27 Jan, 2004 on 01:45 |
Question is... is it a scheduler issue? If so, then all you have to do is to prioritize the virtual machine. To do so, you need Priority Master. Also read the white paper and the article. Peace |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | abwillis abwillis@comcast.net |
| Date | : | 27 Jan, 2004 on 21:55 |
| It's ironic that you mention priority master. I was wondering if it would work under eCS and had downloaded it today. I installed it, ran it and decided I would waste more time trying to set it up than I would gain from lost cpu cycles. If I could launch my apps and then use priority master on them would be good but it looks like i have to launch everything through it. Andy |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | zionite |
| Date | : | 27 Jan, 2004 on 22:24 |
| Checked with VPC on a XP system that supported HT and No it didn't support HT so "only" one CPU was available within the system settings. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | kidmarc |
| Date | : | 02 Feb, 2004 on 21:10 |
Sorry for the late response. [I don't follow the forum as close as some do.] As you found out, the progam does run under eCS since it is OS/2, and the program was originally written for OS/2 by the man who wrote its [OS/2] scheduler. The problem(s) you are having with the program are covered in the Tour for Priority Master and the FAQ. In the Tour, you are shown how to set up the program, and you are also able to set up the 'Run from List'. The GUI page will show better pictures. However, your problem with launching apps not through Priority Master is covered at the bottom of the FAQ. [The last question and answer.] Peace |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | abwillis abwillis@comcast.net |
| Date | : | 02 Feb, 2004 on 23:27 |
If it were usable in the way the faq references that they didn't release I would be all for it but as is it isn't something I care to fight with. |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | kidmarc |
| Date | : | 03 Feb, 2004 on 01:40 |
It wasn't a dozen asking them; it was a dozen responses to Ted's comments to users on a bug. Ted, a former IBMer, is the sole author of Priority Master. As stated, he found a glitch in the development of version 3 that brought down the system. He then inquired as to how many people were interested in further development of PM and he received 12 responses. Essentially, costs to fix the problem and further develop PM would overwhelm interest in another version. Unless interest increases to warrant a return to development or someone(s) ante up's funding, PM for OS/2 - eCS will stay frozen at 2.6. Ted dropped the price drastically on the OS/2 version while maintaining a higher price on the Windows version, yet more people have purchased the Windows version than the OS/2 one. This speaks greatly of the OS/2 - eCS Community. It's too bad Ted changed the website (for a second time). He had some interesting testimonials as well as helpful information. One testimonial told of a businessman who had a problem with the employees wanting new computers because the current ones were too slow. After applying PM, and challenging them to make the computer less responsive (using a monitoring application to check CPU useage), he never had a problem with the employees again. Another had problems with SSIQ (aka SIQ). After PM, no more SSIQ/SIQ problems. It's a great piece of software; it's sad few recognize or need its value. Peace |
| Subject | : | Re:OS2 and P4 Hyper-Threading Technology |
| Author | : | abwillis abwillis@comcast.net |
| Date | : | 03 Feb, 2004 on 03:06 |
| I can see the benefit but unfortunately it won't be updated to be used as I would use it. I would easily pay twice the current cost if it worked as I would use it but it isn't worth half the cost to me the way it works currently. I am looking for a program I can set the priority on running apps which is what prompted me to check out PM. In order to use it as is requires such a fundamental shift in the way I run apps as to make it unproductive for me. If I thought there was any chance it would be updated I would go ahead and buy it now and then purchase the upgraded version later but as that is apparently not going to occur I can't justify the expense for an app I wouldn't use. Oh well, I certainly don't blame him for not updating when it would be a losing proposition but I certainly wish I had what it had promise to be. Andy |