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WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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BigWarpGuy
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1. WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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"WAPE - OS/2 port of WINE

Text: New Slovakian web about WAPE project. WAPE is OS/2 port of WINE.

Url: http://www.tursoft.sk/index.php?a=cat.116

From: Andrej Gavac (andy@jabber.cz) "

Could this be a replacement for SDD?

Where is the site that translates web sites to another lanuage?


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Date: 19 Mar, 2007 on 19:28
zman
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2. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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wine and odin are related not sdd to wine

babelfish does not translate slovakian

Date: 19 Mar, 2007 on 19:47
Sebadoh
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3. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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This would be a replacement for ODIN not for SDD. It seems like they have gotten a lot of stuff working on it which odin didn't work with, it would be great if we could get the guy to contribute to ODIN instead of working from the ground up on his own. Also would be nice if we could get some English translations.


BigWarpGuy (19 Mar, 2007 19:2:
"WAPE - OS/2 port of WINE

Text: New Slovakian web about WAPE project. WAPE is OS/2 port of WINE.

Url: http://www.tursoft.sk/index.php?a=cat.116

From: Andrej Gavac (andy@jabber.cz) "

Could this be a replacement for SDD?

Where is the site that translates web sites to another lanuage?


Date: 19 Mar, 2007 on 19:49
Michaelhz
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4. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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So why any further development for odin? Its outdated and there were no serious enhancements for the last years. Recently someone mentioned that wine is more "complete".
Keeping the wine-port for os/2 in sync with original sources is by far more easy than reanimating odin. And its more efficient in terms of workload for our few remaining developers.

Best regards
Michael

Date: 19 Mar, 2007 on 20:22
cytan
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5. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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I agree. It's much better to be able to port WINE to OS/2 than to do ODIN (although ODIN would've been fantastic) because of the support on other platforms.

If somebody can translate the WAPE webpage into English that will help immensely .

cytan


Michaelhz (19 Mar, 2007 20:22):
So why any further development for odin? Its outdated and there were no serious enhancements for the last years. Recently someone mentioned that wine is more "complete".
Keeping the wine-port for os/2 in sync with original sources is by far more easy than reanimating odin. And its more efficient in terms of workload for our few remaining developers.

Best regards
Michael


Date: 19 Mar, 2007 on 21:24
zman
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6. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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i think so too! odin conflicts with older innotek versions on my system. wine might work better with warpvision which is also a linux port and not conflict with the innotek stuff.

that said. even on linux it is only a half measure. its better to run windows itself on a new vm for os/2 with usb support. how is work on that virtual box solution going, hummm??? i'd like to see effort go there!

note: vista requires acpi or its loader halts with such a message. therefore, xp is the last windows i can run on virtual pc.

Date: 19 Mar, 2007 on 22:40
BigWarpGuy
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7. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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zman (19 Mar, 2007 19:47):
wine and odin are related not sdd to wine

babelfish does not translate slovakian


Thank you for the clarification.

I tried Bablefish but it did not list that language.

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Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 00:08
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8. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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last updated at 20 Mar, 2007 01:38 (3 times)
This is a brief translation what Workib wants to tell everyone (only first two paragraphs - the rest later today):

WAPE is a project for those who need to run programs for Windows on a stable and secure platform at home and at work. That is 100% possible only on the eComstation platform.

programmer Jozef Bakos (workib)

Formerly this program was intended to be OPEN. Nevertheless, someone has patented OPEN SOURCE, so it is not possible to release it as OPEN SOURCE - it would need a lot of time and modifications. That is why it is hard to figure out the completion time of the project and it is certain that it WILL NOT BE OPEN.

Another problem is DirectX and hardware (graphics) acceleration for advanced gaming. This is a secondary issue right now, currently being resolved. First version of WAPE will certainly NOT include DirectX support. For the full DirectX support it will be necessary to copy the (original?) libraries manually.

You can find the original discussion (Czech&Slovak so far only) here:
http://www.os2.cz/ultraboard/read.php?1,3910,3910#msg-3910

Personal note:
I've been spending a couple of months supporting Workib, and it took >A LOT< of energy, time and persuasion to bring him to this point (and not to scrap everything). Bear also in mind that he is a Linux guy, not an OS/2 guy. I would strongly suggest to SUPPORT this effort of one single person who tries to contribute to the community instead of bitching and flaming about what we do/do not like/want/whatever. This is a one time opportunity for the whole platform so please do not drive it away. It is very difficult to predict how this will end up. Patience and hard work is required here! Consider yourselves warned.

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 01:15
Blonde Guy
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9. Re:WAPE
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Thanks boldos.

Is this a port of WINE using GCC 3.3.5? This could be much better than ODIN, because OS/2 support for ports using GCC is still active, and because it could lead straight to support for running Windows programs under Voyager.

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Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 03:24
abwillis
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10. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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zman (19 Mar, 2007 22:40):
i think so too! odin conflicts with older innotek versions on my system. wine might work better with warpvision which is also a linux port and not conflict with the innotek stuff.

that said. even on linux it is only a half measure. its better to run windows itself on a new vm for os/2 with usb support. how is work on that virtual box solution going, hummm??? i'd like to see effort go there!

note: vista requires acpi or its loader halts with such a message. therefore, xp is the last windows i can run on virtual pc.


Warpvision would have to be written to use WAPE as it currently makes its calls through Odin (for those codecs that require Odin).
I don't know if Vista will run under Virtual PC or not but I am using Virtual PC on eCS and have Windows XP running with ACPI support.
As to ther earlier questions of why not use Odin.. the advantage to using Odin would be to try to save time for those things already done. However, if the Odin code isn't known and the Wine code is then it probably wouldn't be a time saver. I might suggest looking at the kernel32 code from Odin as it may help the developler on OS/2.
Eventual directx support to play games would be nice.
Andy

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 05:18
cytan
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11. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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Since I don't read Czech, so what is the current status? Are there binaries for us to alpha/beta test?

cytan

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 15:15
boldos
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12. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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Yes, there are binaries (the screenshots of Half Life 2 running under eComstation are taken using these binaries), but they are not publicly available right now.

This will be resolved in a near future.

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 16:13
Shai
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13. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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Yesterday, I asked a friend of mine who speaks Czech (which is very similar to Slovak) to summarize the first few paragraph's content. Besides what was already translated here, he told me that the author wants to sell copies as a product for the price of a computer game.
I don't really understand his attitude towards open source but nevertheless, an interesting project...

Robin

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 17:25
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14. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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Shai (20 Mar, 2007 17:25):
Yesterday, I asked a friend of mine who speaks Czech (which is very similar to Slovak) to summarize the first few paragraph's content. Besides what was already translated here, he told me that the author wants to sell copies as a product for the price of a computer game.
I don't really understand his attitude towards open source but nevertheless, an interesting project...

Robin


If it means being able to use Win programs in eCS, it could be worth the cost. It would also depend on the cost of the computer game too.

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Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 17:38
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15. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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If this is a port of WINE, I do not understand how it can be sold without source being a derivative work of code published under LGPL. What am I missing?
Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 19:01
boldos
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16. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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last updated at 20 Mar, 2007 19:20 (2 times)
Well, I guess that workib is afraid that "someone" could steal the technology - this is NOT ONLY the port of wine, there is much more. There is his own technology there as well and he does NOT want to put it into "someones" hands.

On one hand, I think that he is pushing the issue quite hard, on the other hand, compare Mac+Linux vs. Vista (and try to find at least 10 differences ).

Got the point?

Anyway, there is a slight chance (in my opinion) the issue could be discussed in the future...

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 19:16
cytan
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17. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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last updated at 20 Mar, 2007 19:57 (1 times)
To tell the truth, I don't really care how it's done but that it works and in the process workib makes $$$$ out of it. What I'm afraid of is that we don't want to pay for anything and this project will go the way of ODIN.

I hope that WAPE will be good enough to run the
one Win$ programme which I want and that is Mathematica.

cytan

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 19:56
obiwan
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18. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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I agree there is no point in debating whether Workib should or should not publish his own source code or charge money. That is his choice.

My question is with respect to the LGPL license. Any modification to WINE to make it work in OS/2 would have to have its source made available. As I understand, the LGPL would permit a closed-source work to statically link with the WINE binaries, but creating those binaries under OS/2 in the first place means modifying (or lifting) LGPL code, and the result of that cannot then be closed-source. The only logical alternative I see is that there are no modifications to the LGPL source, in which case no work is required to port WINE, so we could all do it and don't need WAPE, and that is highly improbable.

However I do not post this as an expert, which is why I ask the question. Maybe I am missing something about WINE, about LGPL, or about WAPE.

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 21:10
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19. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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OK, here is the rest of that Czech/Slovak page. Sorry for any typos, some may be even intentional

The English version (this translations) should be available on the original webpage http://www.tursoft.sk/index.php?a=cat.116 in a couple of days. I hope that this will enlighten the situation around WAPE a bit more. Looking forward to your comments.

comments from the OS/2.cz (only that ones from workib)

31.10.2006
The bug list:
- WAPE windows are sometimes not displayed correctly,
- Windows applications are sometimes not displayed corretly,
- causes OS/2 hang-ups,
- DirectX sometimes works, sometimes doesn't,
- USB, LPT, COM, NIC not functioning.

I'm still willing to do the work on the project so far but even my patience has limits. It is very hard to do any work without [kernel] documentation. If anyone does not believe me [that WAPE is able to run HW accelerated 3D games on eComstation] I'm willing to record a video.

1.11.2006
Basically works in a way that when you type hl2.exe WAPE will run this hl2.exe but will provide Win DLLs to the app. Windows is designed in a very weird way, I haven't seen such sh*t yet and hope I never will again. I you run app, it goes through a TONS of DLLs that are absolutely not related to it and at the end will end up with kernel. Sometimes this repeats even 50x so you go nuts. The biggest phun is that some of their source codes have bug-checked its stack even 10 times at the same source code. I'd really like to know why it is checked that way.

Problems I have still to solve:
Complete absence of
[OS/2] graphics drivers that support DirectX. Even if there might exist such a thing [in OS/2 realm] it is usually totally unusable. The simplest solution is that when WAPE is running, it completely kills OS/2's graphics subsystem and in the used windows there is a dull explorer running. That is causing big problems because this will all go to hell at the point OS/2 will try to use the graphics subsystem again.

Because I cannot go around the [OS/2] kernel, I desided to use OS/2 [subsystems&APIs] as much as possible. I'm trying to use native OS/2 graphics drivers, but at that point WAPE has to use a two-way converter to be compatible with the underlaying system. Which is a big problem because I do not have a kernel documentation. So I have to literally "break down" the system to pieces to get the info I need. Because of this I'm re-installing the OS/2 approx. every other day.

1.11.2006
ODIN is not accelerated for sure, but I'm using a different approach as I wrote here. The simples way is that if WAPE is running it kills the OS/2's graphics subsystem and there is a dumb EXPLORER running the the active windows. That is problematic because when OS/2 tries to use it's graphics again, it all goes to hell.

1.11.2006
That means that in the created window or on the desktop there is a directX windows app running. It is almost as if there was a Windows running in that window.
[missing] Graphic cards drivers are a big problem.

2.11.2006
Yesterday I fixed a bug that caused a wrong window drawing. F*ck - I'm getting older and blind 'cause I had it directly under my nose . If I'm gonna make it and fix all the bugs (including that "go to hell" bug) WAPE could be ready for download in november
[2006].

6.11.2006
I would be really interested how many ppl would be willing to actively contribute to this OS/2 port? And I'd like to know if it really makes any sense to do the emulator and if it makes sense to put directx into it anyway? I don't want to scrap the project, but it is important what you
[OS/2ers] want, because it is you who will be using it, not me. I'm f*cking the microsoft and I don't intend to emulate windows.

14.11.2006
GNU/GPL is not protecting the programmer
[author] as it should. It serves only as a paperwork, nothing more.

20.11.2006
I'm afraid that it is imminent that I will abandon the project, because I was not able to fine-tune the WAPE build so it works correctly. Does any of you have any information that would help me - or does OS/2 have anything analogous to directx?
I do see only to possibilities right now:
1) the directx support altogether with hardware acceleration will be removed completely,
2) I will have to create a special version of kernel
Do you want HW accelerated graphics with directx?

26.11.2006
The WAPE is almost complete, fixing some last bugs. It will be directly integrated into OS/2 and it is probable someone
[from OS/2 community] will not like it.

2.12.2006
I did not try
[running win] programs but [I am certain] they will work. It is not necessary to have Windows installed. But I'm not sure if WAPE will be an option [for OS/2 community] because of the OS/2 community conservatism. [WAPE] Will fundamentally modify the whole OS/2.

5.12.2006
well, it will be rather my version of OS/2 LOL. Ok, that was a bad joke - it will just remain OS/2.

20.2.2007
WAPE is complete, have to solve the issue where to upload it

22.2.2007
Unfortunately mr. gates has long fingers everywhere and a lot of money. I was refused the ftp access and it was even poited out that I may be violating some licenses. So what remains? The only thing - removing all of the questionable things, thus removing the HW acceleration and win drivers support. Could someone enlighten me on how to get through the licensing problems?

22.2.2007
The directX just cannot stay there.

- the lawier consultation brought some new knoledge

28.2.2007
So we got through the license and it is clear that two questionable things still have to be removed. I fixed the first problem but the second one, memory allocation, is patented by some di*k, so free software (open source) is no longer free.

- directx problem is temporarily solved - individuall DLLs have to be copied manually [from Win]
- just working on HW
[graphics] acceleration - a long run issue

Date: 20 Mar, 2007 on 22:56
mobybrick
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20. Re:WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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This looks *very* exciting, and the developer needs our support. I personally do not mind paying to buy his software.

Looking at some of the issues he has been contending with, does he know of DIVE, EnDIVE and DART? I don't know even if GCC has the headers for this, but it would not be too much work to add them.

DIVE is the direct OS/2 equivalent of WinG/DirectX and provides similar performance, but I don't know how under-the-bonnet similar they are. But it would certainly be far faster than using GPI (OS/2's equivalent of Winblows GDI).

Maybe someone with an OS.CZ account could offer assistance. Also, I found a link on-line to the DIVE docs:

http://www.warpspeed.com.au/cgi-bin/inf2html.cmd?..\html\book\ddk\PDRREF.INF+59

If Jozef Bakos happens to read this, then please be assured that you have my support - please contact me at mobybrick at hotmail dot com if I can help. I'm not a great programmer, but maybe there are other things the OS/2 community can do to help.

Regards,
Moby.

Date: 21 Mar, 2007 on 01:46
WAPE; Replacement for SDD?
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